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PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 21:26 
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014, 21:57
Posts: 655
Game name: Alexander Dantes
Judoo wrote:
Getting people to test stuff is not as easy as it sounds. I've often posted in the past about new game features that need to be tested in both global chat and here on the forums to receive no responses at all in days. There's even a dedicated stickied thread for new features on test not yet pushed to live.

Maybe offer some kind of incentive in the main game like a one-time nickname if someone helps with X amount of things? Or just dramatically shorten the main round (I doubt many people will mind, you can always alternate bosses so there's an equal amount of time between them) since pvp boards are disabled anyway? That way you get shorter intervals during which you can change things or try new stuff. If things are easily altered that sounds like a pretty legit option honestly, a bunch of 1000-1500 turn rounds to get the stats just right. And yeah, reading back I went too far with a few of my posts, hope I can explain it away as passion.


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PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 21:29 
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014, 22:47
Posts: 243
Game name: Elyn Kitsu
Judoo wrote:
Stats conversion has been a result of weeks of idea-gathering and a couple more weeks of coding effort from both Arrhae and myself. A very long window was provided for people to propose their ideas and debate the merits of others'. This is not something that can simply be rolled back and shrugged off. The round will not launch with the current setup, but neither will everything be zapped back to how it was before.

Also keep in mind that it's impossible to accurately get a good idea when there are only 20 items that have been converted. The more forms/items/pets there are, the more possibility to min-max and be selective about what gear you want, try rack up the highest possible amount of points in one category with negatives of your own choice. The same concept applies to a test server with only 5 players.

Furthermore, something you don't seem to comprehend, it's now trivially easy to change the system again, to rename the fields, alter how they print out (ie, Varn's simple vs advanced tooltip), and change the balanacing. Don't like the 4 substats per stat? Remove two of them, done. Want to get rid of misfire entirely? Take out base chance of it happening and remove that as an effect of a stat. Done. The number of ingame effects could easily be halved or doubled. Done.

Some new numbers for anyone interested:

Spoiler:
// new system
public decimal HealthBonusPercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
0.5F * Discipline() +
-0.25F * Allure() +
(float)FromForm_HealthBonusPercent +
(float)FromItems_HealthBonusPercent +
(float)FromEffects_HealthBonusPercent
);
}

public decimal ManaBonusPercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
1.0F * Magicka() +
-.25F * Succour()
);
}

public decimal ExtraSkillCriticalPercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
.5F * Luck() +
-.25F * Discipline()
);
}

public decimal HealthRecoveryPerUpdate()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
.5F * Succour()
);
}

public decimal ManaRecoveryPerUpdate()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
.5F * Succour()
);
}

public decimal SneakPercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
-1.0F * Fortitude() +
1.25F * Agility() +
-0.5F * Allure()
);
}

public decimal EvasionPercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
-0.5F * Fortitude() +
1.0F * Agility()
);
}

public decimal EvasionNegationPercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
1.5F * Perception() +
1.0F * Allure() +
-0.5F * Magicka()
);
}

public decimal MeditationExtraMana()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
-.25F * Perception() +
.5F * Magicka()
);
}

public decimal CleanseExtraHealth()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
.25F * Discipline() +
-.125F * Fortitude()
);
}

public decimal MoveActionPointDiscount()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
-.0125F * Perception() +
.04F * Agility() +
(float)FromForm_MoveActionPointDiscount +
(float)FromItems_MoveActionPointDiscount +
(float)FromEffects_MoveActionPointDiscount
);
}

public decimal SpellExtraTFEnergyPercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
1.0F * Charisma() +
1.0F * Magicka() +
-.25F * Succour()
);
}

public decimal SpellExtraHealthDamagePercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
1.0F * Charisma() +
-.25F * Discipline() +
1.5F * Allure()
);
}

public decimal CleanseExtraTFEnergyRemovalPercent()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
-.125F * Magicka() +
.375F * Luck()
);
}

public decimal SpellMisfireChanceReduction()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
.75F * Perception() +
-.125F * Charisma()
);
}

public decimal SpellHealthDamageResistance()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
1.0F * Discipline() +
-.25F * Charisma() +
-.25F * Luck()
);
}

public decimal SpellTFEnergyDamageResistance()
{
return Convert.ToDecimal(
1.0F * Fortitude() +
-.25F * Agility() +
-.1875 * Luck()
);
}

public decimal ExtraInventorySpace()
{
decimal amt = Convert.ToDecimal(
.25F * Fortitude() +
-.025F * Agility()
);

amt = Math.Floor(amt);

return amt;
}


*sighs and goes to update the calculator*

We need a patch notes type system!

Changes for 5 / 13 / 2015

Agility
    Extra Inventory per Point changed from -.25 to -.025

An example since its the first change I see xD

EDIT: It occurs to me that after I just updated the calculator I could have done a patch notes post myself. Woops.

Guess I'll do that in the future?

Anyway, initial thoughts just from making the calculator changes, stats are now more powerful. Negatives are now actually negatives.

Agility is probably too good of a stat. Same with Succour.


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PostPosted: 13 May 2015, 23:42 
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Joined: 08 Jun 2014, 18:58
Posts: 216
Game name: Lucy
Stupid reading 0.025 as 0.25!

(Also, that 'Perfect Barman' is awesome, if he does what I think he's doing)


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PostPosted: 14 May 2015, 18:11 
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Joined: 29 Jan 2015, 07:43
Posts: 79
Location: Inside a tropical forest in Brazil
Game name: Calem
I am seeing some people with +20 inventory slots... maybe it's time for the WP recovery items to share some kind of cooldown?

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PostPosted: 14 May 2015, 18:23 
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Joined: 19 Sep 2014, 14:30
Posts: 654
Game name: Vivien
calem wrote:
I am seeing some people with +20 inventory slots... maybe it's time for the WP recovery items to share some kind of cooldown?


Considering the owner gets more 'exhausted' upon use than the object, I would support that from a RP perspective, aside of it being reasonable in PvP.

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You cursed Olive Sutter III with Gift of the Fae. (+1 XP) Congratulations, you have gained an experience level!
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PostPosted: 14 May 2015, 20:51 
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Joined: 08 Jun 2014, 18:58
Posts: 216
Game name: Lucy
They've given up quite a bit to get the 80 fortitude to get that many slots - both from it being impossible for them to dodge (which makes perfect RP sense, no less) and from the loss of opportunity elsewhere. I'd lean towards just tweaking the maxInventory coefficient if it turns out to be a problem in practice.

If we were to go a shared cooldown route - I'd suggest instead only being able to use one item per round. Petals and jawbreakers likely excepted.


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PostPosted: 15 May 2015, 02:06 
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Joined: 13 May 2015, 02:36
Posts: 16
Game name: Suki Toi
Varn wrote:
If we were to go a shared cooldown route - I'd suggest instead only being able to use one item per round. Petals and jawbreakers likely excepted.

I think that a 1/item per update, or perhaps an increasing AP cost per item per round (0, then 1, then 2, etc.) would be a good idea. It would reduce item spam.


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PostPosted: 15 May 2015, 17:16 
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Joined: 08 Jun 2014, 18:58
Posts: 216
Game name: Lucy
Question for Judoo - today's our 10th day of chaos; any thoughts on when you'll be able to start the next round? Anything you could use from us for help (items still not stated, something in the new system you think is too poor to go live you want to discuss,, etc?)

Personally, I'd resolved to take 2 rounds mostly off ... but gettig antsy to be back (if you can't tell by multiple forum posts.)


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PostPosted: 15 May 2015, 22:02 
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Transformania Admin
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Joined: 12 May 2014, 23:29
Posts: 1055
Game name: changes every player
I don't like long chaos myself. The original plan was to get the round kicked off this past Monday but then the forums here exploded and I thought I'd give everyone a few days to get their last thoughts in. Right now my plan is to start the new round on Monday with whatever stats are currently up (exact numbers will likely be tweaked, but I don't believe the categories or their substats will be changing any more at this point.

1. There will not be a PvP leaderboard next round. The dungeon will still be open for those who want to go down (dungeon demons now drop spell books upon defeat, and later on will drop tomes as well) but there won't really be any way to tell how many dungeon point you have.

2. I will open a poll a few days into the round asking people how they feel about the new stats system, providing fairly basic choices like "way too complicated", "a little too complicated", "just fine", "a little too simple," and "way too simple". I'll base what direction to take based off of the responses there, but one thing is fairly certain: the 9 categories themselves will remain, but if need be their names and substat types and amounts will be tweaked.

3. I will aim to get the double update speed going but keep the round at 2,500 turns (or possibly drop it down to only 2000). I will try and hardcode in as little as possible so changing turn length from 10 minutes to 5, or 7.5, or 3 should be trivially easy. This means that the round will be half as long, or possibly less, in terms of days.

4. Sneak will not be reworked just yet. This also means that the anti-sneak currently provided by Perception has no ingame effect.

Also, here's an ingame way of seeing what the stats mean at any given time (a few more updates are needed but this is a general guideline):

http://transformaniatime.com/PvPAdmin/ShowStatsTable


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PostPosted: 16 May 2015, 01:56 
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014, 22:47
Posts: 243
Game name: Elyn Kitsu
Judoo wrote:
I don't like long chaos myself. The original plan was to get the round kicked off this past Monday but then the forums here exploded and I thought I'd give everyone a few days to get their last thoughts in. Right now my plan is to start the new round on Monday with whatever stats are currently up (exact numbers will likely be tweaked, but I don't believe the categories or their substats will be changing any more at this point.


I wouldn't be so sure on that! A round reset is fine I guess, but might be more beneficial to just turn chaos off and declare a semi-free for all for testing purposes, that way you could test the other new systems as you roll them out instead of trying to get people onto the test realm.

Judoo wrote:
2. I will open a poll a few days into the round asking people how they feel about the new stats system, providing fairly basic choices like "way too complicated", "a little too complicated", "just fine", "a little too simple," and "way too simple". I'll base what direction to take based off of the responses there, but one thing is fairly certain: the 9 categories themselves will remain, but if need be their names and substat types and amounts will be tweaked.


I like this idea, hopefully it has some good questions ._.

Judoo wrote:
3. I will aim to get the double update speed going but keep the round at 2,500 turns (or possibly drop it down to only 2000). I will try and hardcode in as little as possible so changing turn length from 10 minutes to 5, or 7.5, or 3 should be trivially easy. This means that the round will be half as long, or possibly less, in terms of days.


I never posted in that thread, but still probably in the camp of hating the idea xD. if its adjustable it wouldn't be bad to test though.

Judoo wrote:
4. Sneak will not be reworked just yet. This also means that the anti-sneak currently provided by Perception has no ingame effect.


I still think this whole idea needs more discussion.


Just my brief thoughts >.<


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